Shit We Don't Talk About

Voices for the Voiceless: Championing the Wrongfully Imprisoned

January 21, 2024 Mia Voss Episode 83
Shit We Don't Talk About
Voices for the Voiceless: Championing the Wrongfully Imprisoned
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Imagine sitting behind bars for a crime you didn't commit, feeling the weight of the world's indifference on your shoulders. This is the stark reality we confront alongside Osagie Okuruwa of ⁠The Innocent Convicts⁠, and ⁠Lynn Currier⁠ of Skweda Solutions, as they share their relentless pursuit of justice for the wrongfully imprisoned. We delve into the harrowing journeys of Jonas Francisque and David Yarde—two men entangled in a system reluctant to admit its errors. Their stories, marred by withheld evidence and retaliatory prison measures, are a sobering reminder of the significant work that lies ahead in the fight against wrongful convictions.

Witness the intricate web of systemic issues contributing to these grave injustices, as our discussion broadens to uncover startling statistics and the profound impacts of racial disparities. You'll hear about the 'boys club' that shields the guilty, the power dynamics that undermine truth, and the courageous efforts to give the silenced a voice. We unravel the case of David, framed for a crime while the actual perpetrator, shielded by corrupt ties, walks free. The conversation extends to the psychological impacts of wrongful incarceration, emphasizing the dire need for legal representation and the often rocky road to reintegration.

The final part of the episode reminds us that the pursuit of justice is as much about the heart as it is about the law. Through personal stories and heartfelt expressions, we see how cultural backgrounds shape the strategies used to combat injustice. From Lynn's vigorous advocacy to Osagie's composed, culturally rooted approach, we explore the multifaceted nature of activism and invite you to join the conversation. Your voice is crucial in the movement for a more equitable justice system, and we're here to tell you that every act of support brings us closer to that horizon.

Find Mia On Social Media ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Listen and subscribe to the podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 



Mia Voss:

Osagi and Lynn, nice to see you. How are you two doing?

Lynn Currier:

Good, thank you. Nice to be here. Very excited Nice to meet you both.

Mia Voss:

Yes, very excited to have you here. Well, I was introduced to you through my friend, lynn, who got introduced to you just through a list of people to contact to talk about specifically what you are both doing. So let's dive into it. Osagi, tell me more about the Innocent Convicts.

Osagie Okuruwa:

Thank you, I'm glad to be here again and my name is Osagi. My last name is Okuruwa. I'm joined with my colleague, Ms Lynn Kuria. She is an advocate fighting for innocent people to be released from prison and she has worked extensively with the Massachusetts DOC to bring some of these guys back home, and she's currently working on two cases which she will be discussing with us shortly. And the about the Innocent Convicts program is similar to the Innocence Project how they work. We shed light on wrongful conviction cases and highlight the plight of individuals and their families who have been erroneously convicted. We also bring our attention to their cases through documentary filmmaking. Recently we started a workforce training program to kind of integrate them back into society by training them in different schemes so that they are able to earn an income and also have something meaningful to do when they come back home.

Mia Voss:

Well, I love that three pronged effect. So one, bringing attention to the cases. Two, solving the problem so that this is not going to be this continuous ongoing feeding into the system and then helping them when they come back to. That's so important.

Osagie Okuruwa:

Thank you.

Mia Voss:

Absolutely so, lynn. Tell us about the cases you're working on.

Lynn Currier:

Well, I have about six clients right now, but there's two that I'm working closely with Osage on and my company's called Squata Solutions. We work very, very closely together, probably more than more than is healthy no, I'm kidding, but anyway we do a lot of conversations, a lot of texts and emails and anyway there are two men that were working hard on their cases. One is Jonas Francis, who should have gotten a retrial but it was denied because of what I call the Boys Club. He had two Brady violations, meaning evidence was hidden and it was proven in court, and also the judge did not allow new DNA evidence. That totally exonerates him and puts a finger on two other people that were at the scene. It's just so, it's just unbelievable, it's shockingly corrupt. But anyway, working hard, we're going after, so to speak, the DA and giving him all the reasons that he should drop the case, because we have so much on him, and now it's going to be the court of public opinion that we're going to hopefully bring him home. We'll go to the press if he doesn't assess or drop the case against Jonas. So Osage and I do a lot of stuff on the outside, so to speak. We're not lawyers, but we understand enough about the legal system and we work with enough lawyers and enough people where we know how to kind of work with them and, in a parallel way to them, to help get the support and the awareness through media and whatnot and social media has actually really has been a great thing to help bring them home and pressure DAs into doing the right thing. The other person is David Yard, who I just mentioned, who is in. He's in segregation right now because he's being abused behind the wall, which happens every day because he wouldn't become an informant and so now he's being. He's filed complaints against the Ips officers the quote disciplinary officers in the facilities in the DOC. He's filed complaints against him because they've really been harassing and emotionally and mentally abusing him, so now they've been filing false D tickets we call them disciplinary tickets to get him, to pressure him even more and punish him essentially for telling the truth about them. So David's situation is really crazy right now.

Mia Voss:

And dire and really urgent.

Lynn Currier:

Yes, it's pretty horrific. It's as bad as it gets. You know I've been very worried about him. He's doing okay. He's a very strong guy, very strong-minded guy. But if you're, if you're a fighter, if you're fighting for your life, if you're protecting your rights behind the wall or other people's rights, you know you get a target on your back, and is that what it is to? Yeah, yeah yeah and what they did.

Mia Voss:

Oh go ahead. Well, just what I was gonna say. Oh, yes, yeah, we're so excited to say what we have to say.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah, um, but if, if you're a young person and you come into different facilities, they look at you as someone that they can maybe manipulate, you know, into being a confidential informant. And he's, he's, he's been incarcerated for nine years, since he was, I think, 21, so he's not that old yet, you know. And so they look at him as sort of fresh me, like, oh, maybe we can manipulate this guy. And, and they also take guys that have some mental health issues, that are vulnerable and they think that they are malleable. You know, they can intimidate them, offer them, you know, just be able to sell drugs, which they do all the time and different things that they offer them. So, so, anyway, when they, when someone is strong and ethical and they don't get plus, it's dangerous to be, as you can imagine, informant. Um, if someone's strong and doesn't go along with it, they get upset, you know, because some of these guys are very, very Unhappy people, you know, kind of macho guys that couldn't make it as police. So now they're in the DOC, you see, and they feel Empowered. So, anyway, though, that's, that's what's going on with David, and actually I've gotten one new client last night that's going to the exact same thing as David. He's right in the, he's right in the unit with David.

Mia Voss:

So and I was Thank you for telling us his story, and I want to spell out his name if you're listening and just want to look him up right away it's David yard W A R Y A R D E Right, yeah, david yard, right. So, and and I want to even pull back just a second on the bigger picture and you started with it right away, and I just see this common thread with all of this is the problems in in the system itself, that this, how corrupt it is. It is not just a law and order in this episode kind of thing, I mean, it is just. It seems so prevalent. I was just looking at an article that came out on news one with a long, long list of People who have been recently exonerated and, in case after case, you see either Either problems with the DNA or with the witnesses, or with tampered evidence or, like with your saying too, of people really just breaking the law To convict someone wrongly of breaking the law.

Lynn Currier:

There's one thing I just want to share quickly. That is is it's a similarity in both cases at Osage and I've been talking a lot about recently and what I'm seeing is that there I have three clients, or probably four, but three clients right now who I I would bet you know a thousand dollars or more were we're at the scene potentially, but with with Someone that was an informant. And what happens is when an informant either either someone's already an informant and their the state is protecting them because they don't want them to get caught and they're valuable to them, so they go ahead and frame somebody else and I'll explain quickly how I've seen them frame them or they they cut a deal because their uncle is a lead detective, which is in Jonas Francis's case. We know that that the guy who actually had had his DNA and blood on his clothes that they knew about the first night when they took the clothes. Anyway, they they're the informants have a lot to do with it. They have a lot to do with it and it's a really serious. It's a very serious problem because in David's situation, the, the other person that we believe did it, and we don't want to get too into it because these are dangerous people. You know, these are people that we should be somewhat afraid of. But they were pretty sure that that person is an, became an informant, or possibly was an informant, and two years later he got mad because someone was telling a joke at in a hotel room where he was with his buddies and he he killed the kid. So two years later, after after David being framed for something he didn't do, the one that we believe did it without any doubt, the scientific evidence shows that it couldn't have been David this guy goes out and kills somebody else's child. So you know the state. The state needs to be held accountable.

Mia Voss:

It just seems so incredibly Problem. And that also is the problem too, and I saw from a couple cases I was looking at as well that there is just Irrefutable evidence in many of these cases. But I mean Similar to I'll just use it as an example and Shawshank Redemption like sounds great, we know we have the evidence, but you are part of the system and us extricating you from that system We'll cause them to shine a light on how much, how many problems are with the system itself, right? So that means our people just languishing and I don't mean in a good way in prison, because it would upset the system too much.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah it's truly a yeah, I'm sorry. So it's truly a boys club. You know, a veteran lawyer and I were talking two days ago and when she found out that Jonas didn't get his retrial which is just unbelievably, it's just, it's shocking, it's so bad, it's so blatant, you know, she just said yeah, it's a boys club, you know.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, and they're gonna fight it. Unfortunately, they're fighting harder and harder now the more they see the systems crumbling, with people being freed as well. Talk to me about some of the statistics of you know, the number of people who are wrongly convicted. And then also let's talk about race and this, because it plays huge into wrong, wrongful convictions.

Osagie Okuruwa:

So look for the statistics. We believe over 2000 people have been victims of wrongful conviction since early 90s and about 300 also of them have actually been exonerated through DNA and the average, you know, both years they spent behind bars is considered to be between 12 and 15 years before they actually maybe get fortunate to be, you know, able to appeal their cases so sexfully and it's happening in a number of cases that we've been reviewing and Prosecutorium is condoned has been playing a huge factor in these wrongful conviction cases and, like Miss Lynn said, some people might be informed or, you know how cut a deal with the police or the detectives in order to maybe get a reduced sentence or Get some kind of incentive to provide Fossified information just to send and no send person to prison or to close that case, which it happened in David Diaz case, and let me give you just the ebricinosis of the case that we we have an idea of Worked really happened in this scenario. So in 2012, october to be precise, david and three of his friends attended and after party for a Halloween event and they that was in downtown Boston, massachusetts, so it was like really early in the morning, probably past 2 am. So they go to this party and there was a guy who eventually became the victim, asking people where they came from. So, david and his crew, they felt they were in work home, so they had to leave early. So they Climbed the elevator, headed towards the train station and the guy See, you know a company then to the train, towards the train station and before they could go to the train station, all five of them stopped and you could see there was surveillance video capturing the guys working from the apartment building towards the train station. So they stopped. We're facing each other and in just a Twinkle of an eye, like in a split on that one second, the camera turned off and what you could hear we're gunshots. And after About one second the camera turned on, turn on again and you will see the victim falling to the ground. So the decay. You know there was this pathologist report that Someone had fired about six gunshots. When the camera went dark and the gunshots came from an individual who was close to the victim and, might you, david, was about six feet away from the victim. But the report from the pathologist indicated that the person who actually fired the shot, who would believe to be one of Devery's friends, was about three feet close to the victim. So this was what happened the guys they fled the scene and David was arrested about three weeks later. Well, there was one witness who happened to walk his to be to be walking his dog at the moment the incident happened. He identified the individual who fired the shot and he said the person wore a blue baseball hat and David Yard was wearing a white hat. So in the video you could see mr Yard In his white hat and another individual who came from behind mr Yard Wearing that blue baseball hat. Despite his evidence on the common words, the convicted David Yard.

Mia Voss:

This, that simplicity to it too, like, yeah, and I read that he did has you come forward with Pathology reports, experts, video experts, all these different experts? And they still are not willing to see it, because it was just so much easier. And it just feels like there's just this Sort of this air of, oh, people are disposable if they don't have the money to defend themselves as well too, and that's just so interesting, especially with that having surveillance video. And I wanted to ask you to about if we could bring up also like bail. I know bail is a huge reason why people stay in prison during car serrated. I think of the story of Khalif Browder, who was kept in in New York and Just literally was never even guilty and just kept in for, I think, three years or something. It's a really a quite a tragic story of and that was because of bail and just a certain Circumstances he couldn't get out of good, couldn't get out of there. Do you also is that that's obviously part of your work too? Is discussion with people of bail and then representation right?

Osagie Okuruwa:

so representation is a Very critical, but only a very small number of people are actually able to For Computing cancer, especially when it comes to the post-conviction review process. So I think we want to, you know, believe that the state needs to do more by maybe providing some kind of Incentive so for more lawyers or attorneys to want to be involved in this post-conviction review process, and that we can speed up the the rate at which, you know, people want their cases to be revisited or to be ultimately dismissed.

Mia Voss:

That's really a great point too, of like the, the, the post-convict are they, you know conviction, and then, like you said, more of that, the after part of like really trying to get them either rally to get out early or to, but the exoneration piece is huge too. Right, there's the, maybe they can get out, but then you know you walk out with absolutely no money. You've lost your skill set for the last 10 to 15 years or not even been able to build any whatsoever. That, that, to me, is also incredibly heartbreaking.

Osagie Okuruwa:

It is.

Mia Voss:

I mean, and even Lynn, once that these two gentlemen are out with a, with a God willing and any, any heavy, big spirit willing, there still will be a lot of reprative. The reparation work to be done which I know is also a piece of Innocent Convicts project too, to help people with that. That's a huge piece because the stigma and shame is gotta be just be tremendous.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah, and it's, it's. It's also on a in a really basic way, prisons have been. Research has proven it's. It's really a common sense, but prisons, they take out people's ability to be able to really think and operate for themselves, so to speak. You know, to make just simple decisions like scheduling their life and all of those really simple things that we, you know, we don't even think about, that we develop. Those skills we developed since we were young, have been, have been snuffed out, so to speak. You know when people have been in prison, especially after, you know, one, two, three decades. So you know, I went to an event with someone who actually was a parole hearing with a bunch of people that had been exonerated, and one of them was profusely sweating because his anxiety kicked in, and another one, his leg, was just shaking as I was sitting beside him and it just was heartbreaking to see what they go through.

Mia Voss:

It's like it's so out of their control because nothing's been, you know, and these, these are men that were exonerated After 38 years, can't imagine and you're right, I mean the conditioning of that and it's so out of their control, because they've never been in control no, they haven't been. You're, you're, you're police by time and and again. Just that's heartbreaking to hear about David too, with what's going on in his current condition as well too, because people do not. One of the biggest thing about old boys clubs and I'll just say it, old white boys clubs, I'll put it out there is that they just do not want to see that. So that is their bread maker. That is there, that is where they get their bread and butter from. Is the system.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah, yeah, and we, you know, with with David situation is. It's very interesting because, as I kind of alluded to before, it doesn't make the DA's office look very good if we can prove that this person is an informant or wasn't an informant. Now he is in prison for God knows how long, but they don't want to make their whole office look bad. The only thing that David might have in his favor is David's case was being looked at for possible exoneration and then it just magically sort of went cold, so to speak. It just sort of drifted off and he had in would probably look better if he said oh, look at, you know, my predecessor blew it. You know, drop the ball, covered it up. Whatever he would say, you know, that's why we need the press involved in all this, because that could actually be a feather in his cap. It could be the opposite effect, you know, but often it's exactly what you're saying. It's a good old boy club and they don't even hide it, you know, they really don't even hide it. It's. It's disgraceful.

Mia Voss:

It truly is and that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I would love to see them him pitch it that way, like, please, you know, even if it's for his benefit of, like, how bad this guy is. And again, this article that I was reading, that was detailing case after case after case and there are definitely there is a corrupt detective that but it resulted in like 15 different exonerations of cases that they could yes, I'll send it to you. It is just, it is just incredible. But again, that's where you see this, this system that needs to be reconfigured at the very least. And we're talking, I mean, there's wrongful convictions, there's nonviolent and violent as well. And one thing I've always been aware of is, certainly when it comes to the cannabis world and any kind of drug convictions, I mean how incredible that is of how much, of, how much quicker it is for white people to not be convicted. I'll say, especially when in these non nonviolent, but you know, the drug convictions and so forth, that's a whole other, as a whole other world. That's just huge as well.

Lynn Currier:

Right, there's something if you don't mind, I'd like to kind of interject that that I sort of started thinking about and wanting to express your night and I let it slip. But I just want to share this because I think that the public needs to be aware, especially when people go to jury. Go get on juries and I've talked to jurors I've got three different ones that I've dealt with it. One helped flip a case last year and I have to. Hopefully they're going to flip Jonas's case. But what they do this is what they do, and what we have to be cognizant of is it's not the cops that run these investigations, it's a district attorney. So the Bucks does not stop there and that's where everyone focuses on. The DA knows exactly what the cops are and are not doing and they know what the state troopers, if they bring them in, are and are not doing. They all work together. So I encourage people to go after the DA's in every, every situation, because it's all of them. It's not just the cops, but what I found, that in these two cases, for example well, actually all of my cases what they do is they, instead of doing the basic investigation one on one, of getting the DNA off the victim and the other people that around it were suspects, instead of getting full ballistics reports that show the angle of the shots, you know things that will scientifically prove whether or not it was one person or another. They purposefully do not either even do the investigate that part of the investigation or they keep it out of the courtroom. And what they do is they bamboozle the jurors. The jurors that I've dealt with. They are livid. They feel so bamboozle because it's haunted them to have these young guys who are solving and going off to prison for life, and they were a part of it. But they yeah, I mean they with this one case, jonas's case. It was a vicious, awful stabbing of a bunch of guys just mauling the sky. That Jonas had nothing to do with that. He happened to be in the parking lot at the time and then they took they took about four of the guys, including Jonas, and the victims' clothes to test. In what world do you not test them with DNA when there's blood all over everywhere? This is literally what they did. So the jurors are now finding out this and they're livid because they're like. I said well, what did they tell you in court about DNA? And they said well, they said it was really confusing, really vague, and they mentioned a couple cars that they had tested and they did mention that there was no DNA or blood in Jonas's car. But she said other than that we had nothing. His lawyer was really weak and didn't go up against this machine, so to speak, and she even told me that the lawyer at the end was really really just stifled and frustrated. And the judge was frustrated with the lawyer and said to him in front of the jury you know, you got to give me something, give me something to ponder, to contemplate about this case that shows maybe he's innocent. And the lawyer literally looked at him and said well, you know why I can't, yeah.

Mia Voss:

Oh my gosh, If y'all could see my face like that.

Lynn Currier:

You can see it. Oh, they can't.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, that's some dastardly shit right there.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah, that's like a movie scene, yeah.

Mia Voss:

I bet, I bet. How interesting Lynn that you. I love that you're talking to jurors. I do too. It's fun, I bet. I bet it's like a Jenga puzzle of just figuring out what people are saying, and that really does add that and thank you for that clarification. This is the kind of information I know helps people on this shit we don't talk about or shit we don't know about, right, we just we only see it in this one lens and I think that's so interesting too. I talked about this a lot. We just finished up with the election cycle this week to kind of put a timeframe to the day that we're talking. But I really do encourage people and please add to this as well of taking a look at who is in your local election. I just spent a lot of time this weekend I live in Denver looking at some of the school board people. Like I don't have kids, I've never looked at school boards. You know what I mean, but it's these things like they really are also a hotbed of where things are happening in the education system. And then looking at your DA's absolutely your attorney generals, your local sheriffs see what their record is. I mean, unfortunately. Well, don't be lazy, lazy people Do some homework and start looking. And I literally there's a site that I look at too that shows what anybody that's up for election in the legal system, what their records have been like and like, what their rating is with the citizens, what their rating is with other attorneys, especially judges. There's a lot, and I live near Aurora, and so, unfortunately, in this last week, the final police officer was not convicted in the death of Elijah McClain, which has just been absolutely devastating to our community here as well, because it's now, I believe it's he was killed in, I think in August of 2019, and none of us didn't even hear about it until George Floyd started coming up. You know those of us who weren't paying attention, and so, yes, I mean even looking at the sheriff and the judge in this. It's just, it's been very disheartening. So there's a lot of power in your vote, right, absolutely, and paying attention. Well, tell us some other things that we can do. Give us some action items as well, or just some like what we just talked about, things you can look at and pay attention to.

Osagie Okuruwa:

I mean Ms Nade already said it like the DA is causing a shot here. So we've got to, as you rightly said, pay attention to who we are voting into these offices and who be able to hold them accountable, when you know the flaws of this nature, of this magnitude, happen, because when someone is wrongly convicted, it's not only that individual that's affected, the family's affected, the, their mothers are devastated. They've lost everything, like every penny they ever made goes to litigating a case where you know it's not supposed to be litigator in the first place. And there's one case that happened in Texas. Because his name was Timothy Cole. When he was wrongly convicted, his mom had to put her whole to get a mortgage in order to pay for or to bond him out of detention. So his mom was a teacher. What do you expect a teacher to make that kind of money to bond her son out of, out of detention, and the bond I think was about they said it for about $50,000. So a teacher in America, with other children, you know, trying to fight hard for her son, who was wrongly convicted, to be exonerated.

Mia Voss:

So it there's so many stories like that.

Osagie Okuruwa:

It is very devastating stories. So I think we should pay attention to the people we elect into office, who them accountable, and I think law enforcement should do more like proper investigation of these cases and not just rush to judgment, especially when they see people you know, black and brown people.

Mia Voss:

It's very true. Go ahead, Lynn.

Lynn Currier:

Yeah, I think too, it is something Osage and I've done for a while and we're we're ramping it up. But when there are campaigns like what Osage's done, what I've done on social media and whatnot, it's really important that the average person who hasn't been involved, that just believes in justice and is not accepting racism as a way of life or classism because we know it's poor white folks as well, people basically that might not have as much access to money and power, so to speak. You know it's gotta, it's gotta be public, it's gotta, everything's gotta be put out in the public. And I always stop short of making myself and my family unsafe because some of these characters I'm, quite honestly, I'm probably more afraid of one of the DA's that we're going up against and I am the people that actually did the murder in one case, because they deal with people that would murder somebody in a heartbeat because they have. You know they're not the best characters to be working with the state and getting paid. I don't know, they might even get pensions for all. I know these informants, but yeah, it's like, and after someone becomes exonerated, they need to keep fighting and making that public, like we do. The Innocence Project, the Innocence Program. We're very, very, very public. We're out on social media all the time, have events all the time. You know I put out faces in Osaki too. You know we put out photos so people feel connected to these guys. You know, they're not just some faceless name. You know, yeah, we talk about them. Like, david is a father, he's a young father, he wants to go home to his kids. You know, like, and I'll tell you, I've had people I have 5,000 friends, whatever on Facebook from all over the country and some internationally. And I've had people making calls from my guy that I helped flip last year from across the country. Complete stranger. He reamed out the DA. The DA called up our lawyer and said what's going on? All these people are calling us and who's this? Lynn Courier, you know, and I'm laughing. And the lawyer we're laughing, she's actually she doesn't really know me. We talk all the time and he said, yeah, this guy is so-and-so. Do you know him? He's from. He says something a little bit threatening. We're like oh, shoot, you know oh shit, don't do that, don't threaten people.

Mia Voss:

But you know you can be for him, yeah, for her, right.

Lynn Currier:

We were like, oh, we don't thank God and we didn't know him. But of course oh, my guy was like yeah, that guy was dope, he was good.

Mia Voss:

Yeah, he was loving it. Yeah, those are my kind of people, those are the people I'd be like. Give me the hand, hold my earrings and my purse. I'm gonna join in with you on this too, you know. But you know back on that point real quick. That makes that's such a weird point of that. These they are doing business with informants. Yeah, oh yeah it's a career. It's a career oh my God, you're right. They're like they probably get pensions, like, oh, they probably get holiday pay and you know, and toll Right, right, right pay time off, pto oh my goodness, but I love that. That's so. I'm gonna end with that and maybe a couple other if you have any other calls to action. But it really is one speaking out, sharing out. We were talking about the power of social media. It really can be an incredibly powerful and positive tool for change because of awareness. So sharing things out, all right, any closing thoughts? And then I have one more question for you.

Lynn Currier:

I mean, I would just say that you know for people to look for the name David Yard and Jonas Francis because literally in the next four weeks we're going full throttle on social media. You know, and mine is my name I don't even go through my organization, which I probably should, but I've gotten such a large following with my name, but it's just Lynn Currier and Osage Innocent Convicts. You know, to just check our Facebook friend. You know, friend request us. If people are hearing this and they're as outrageous we are about this, it's something they could literally do right away to help. It could be that one phone call that was the one that broke the DA and said, okay, enough is enough. I've been flooded by 30 calls today, you know, 50 yesterday and it could be that one call that pushes them over.

Mia Voss:

So A lot of squeaky wheels out there, you know, and they hate disapproval ratings. It's a lot of ego out there. All right, I'm going to ask each of you do you have a favorite swear word or phrase that you use a lot in the trenches? Let's end on a funny, positive note.

Lynn Currier:

Osage, don't tell a mind. Okay, be quiet, Just talk about yours, Osage.

Osagie Okuruwa:

Oh no.

Mia Voss:

I should put this up for you. You're not allowed to. He's polite.

Osagie Okuruwa:

I plead the fifth.

Lynn Currier:

No, he doesn't swear. He's a good Christian boy. I was going to say that's why I said our encouraging phrase.

Mia Voss:

If you want to do that, yeah, I'm on the swear campaign. Obviously, this is a pop podcast that has a swear word in it, so you know my brand is out loud and proud with that. So what about you, Lynn?

Lynn Currier:

Oh my God, I, I, I Osage what's wrong with you.

Osagie Okuruwa:

You don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear it.

Mia Voss:

Oh God, no, you have to hear it.

Lynn Currier:

You know, what's beautiful is he's so polite. You know, being from Nigeria, he's very, very polite with his elders and he's like Miss Lynn and Ma, and you know. And then I get wound up and I start dropping F-bombs and whatnot, you know, because it makes me so angry and I stop and I go Lynn, you're an elder, your nostrils talk like that. You're so sad. It's calm, you know, and I'm like. But I think it gets other people wound up too. Osage's probably sitting there with his fist in the air, but he's calm and cool.

Mia Voss:

I think it's a fun combination. Actually, you know it's the word that like watch Lynn pop off over here.

Lynn Currier:

You know, I have to tell you really quickly too, the cutest thing is when you talk to guys behind the wall. They're like Osage. They never they swear with each other. I'm sure I know they do. They never will swear in front of you as a woman. They are so polite. And then we're like me and other women activists are like you. We have our favorite word, our words that just kind of come out of our mouth, and then I get off the phone. I'm like, oh my God, I just swear like a sailor a drunk sailor and this guy's like yes and yes, it's really concerning and it's really disturbing. Yeah, we're not happy. They never swear.

Mia Voss:

Meanwhile in your world, your whispering or yelling what the fuck about every 30 seconds? So I love that. Thank you for indulging me with that question. I really appreciate it Absolutely. I appreciate you both so much so I will have all the links in the show notes and, of course, on social media so you can follow them and get involved, and I appreciate you both so much, thank you.

Osagie Okuruwa:

Thank you for what you're doing.

Mia Voss:

Thank you.

Innocent Convicts
Wrongful Convictions and Systemic Issues
Bail, Representation, and Reintegration of Convicts
Corruption in the Legal System
Politeness and Swearing in Different Cultures