Shit We Don't Talk About
Shit We Don’t Talk About is the podcast that takes on topics we should be talking about more often and openly. Guests and topics will be incredibly diverse, sometimes painful, sometimes joyful but all things we need to talk about candidly to keep us all informed and connected. Some topics may be triggering so please listen with care.
Shit We Don't Talk About
Ep. 86 - Urmi Hossain - Periods! (the menstrual kind, not the punctuation kind)
What happens when we finally break the silence about one of humanity's most natural yet stigmatized experiences? Periods affect half the world's population, yet remain shrouded in shame and misunderstanding. This candid conversation bridges generations and cultures as Mia and and her guest Urmi Hossain share their personal experiences with menstruation across different backgrounds.
The stigma begins early—Urmi recalls being forbidden from attending school classes about periods, while advertisements portrayed menstruation as a joyful experience with blue liquid instead of blood. Both women share cringe-worthy stories of workplace period emergencies and the complex mental gymnastics required to hide a perfectly normal bodily function from colleagues. Their experiences, despite being decades apart, remain disturbingly similar.
The statistics are sobering: 30% of adolescents lack access to needed menstrual products, while 64% of adults report being unable to afford period products at some point in the past year. Globally, 500 million people lack access to basic menstrual necessities. Beyond the physical challenges, cultural taboos label menstruating women as "impure" and restrict their participation in religious and community activities.
This episode doesn't just identify problems—it explores solutions, from workplace "period days" to better education for everyone, especially men. As Mia pointedly suggests, "If men had periods, there would be baskets of tampons and Advil everywhere." The conversation concludes with information about organizations working to address these issues, including Women in Leadership Canada and Femme Influence.
Whether you menstruate or not, this conversation offers critical insights into an experience that shapes lives, workplaces, and communities. Breaking the taboo isn't just about comfort—it's about dignity, equality, and recognizing biological realities that affect millions. Listen, learn, and join us in normalizing this essential conversation.
Urmi Hossain is a woman who wears many hats.; Urmi is a self-published author, speaker, blogger, polyglot, mentor, and holder of both the CFA ( Chartered Financial Analyst) and CAIA ( Chartered Alternative Investment Analyst) designations. She works in the financial services industry in Canada, where she lives.
Her first book, Discovering Your Identity: A Rebirth from Interracial Struggle, reflects her journey as a third-culture kid.
Passionate about women’s empowerment, Urmi is the Social Media Lead for Women in Leadership’s Victoria Chapter and the Campaign Manager at Femme Influence.
She is a big proponent of learning and self-development; one of her passions is public speaking. She has been part of the Toastmasters club since 2019, where she served as both VP of Education and President.
She enjoys reading thrillers and mystery books and working out in her free time, such as boxing, HIIT workouts, and running.
Find Mia On Social Media here.
Listen and subscribe to the podcast: Apple Podcasts | Spotify
Hey, welcome to the latest episode of Shit. We Don't Talk About the podcast that takes on topics that need more open and honest discussion, which means some of these topics are triggering. So please take care when listening and I'll always give you a trigger warning. For instance, here's one Every episode contains swear words.
Mia Voss:You've been warned, Make sure to check out the show notes, which include an accessibility transcript of the podcast and all of the links for our guests at shitwedonttalkaboutpodcastcom of ours. My guest today is Urmi Hussen and our topic periods. And listen. If you're a guy, don't tune out this one's for you. Hi Urmi, how are you? I'm good and you I'm doing so great. I'm excited to talk about this topic because it's following up on two episodes regarding menopause, so let's step it back and talk about periods.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, that's also my favorite topic. It's something that is very close to my heart, especially because I have seen how the whole concept of period is perceived in many cultures and the society as a whole, which is a shared opinion, I would say, and it's always a taboo topic, like no one really likes to talk about this topic, because there is so much shame behind it and it's so sad.
Mia Voss:It is shame. Confusion, lack of information on both sides, I mean, even as women. There's a lot that we were not taught and before we jump in any further, I want to give our identifier. So I'm Mia Voss. I'm a white blonde, six-year-old, in menopause woman. I'm wearing a blue sweater and a cute little dress. What's going on with you? Tell us about you.
Urmi Hossain:So my name is Urmi. I'm a woman who has black long hair, black eyes, and I'm wearing a black, I guess sweater or hoodie, and I'm wearing brown lipstick and glasses. And glasses, yes.
Mia Voss:We're in Montreal. You said it's chilly right now, so she's all bundled up. So thank you. I love to do the identifiers in the beginning so you have an idea of what we look like. And one thing that we were just talking about before I hit record was the difference in our experiences. I am 60. You are about half my age. We come from different cultures and I think this is just so important to bridge the gap, especially with women, so we can get on the same page in a unified front about what is so important, and I love that. You reached out to me after seeing my podcast I think it was through Instagram and felt this need, and I've really wanted to showcase periods let's keep saying it periods, periods, because it makes people so uncomfortable.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, I agree, I agree.
Mia Voss:Well, tell me about your experience, because I know we are also talking about different cultures too. So tell us a little bit about you and your sense of urgency on this topic.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, so just to give you a brief introduction about myself, from my culture, like which cultures I'm from? So basically, I am Italian, bengali. So I was born and raised in Italy and both of my parents are from Bangladesh, and so the two cultures are very different from one another, but they're also very similar. But when it comes to periods periods I would say that they are pretty much the same. One thing that I grew up watching was that a lot of the times when I would watch, let's say, tv, and I would watch mainly Italian things there were a lot of ads about periods, and they were always like showing the products and they were always, you know, having this happy and enthusiastic woman about having their periods.
Urmi Hossain:And, of course, when I was younger, it was something that was very unfamiliar to me, like I was really, I was really small and I didn't know what periods were, especially because at home it was a, it was a topic that we were never spoken about.
Urmi Hossain:And, on top of that, I was also forbidden at school to attend those type of classes where they talk about periods and stuff like that. So I was very much, I would say, the kid who didn't know much about it, and then one day, I would say when I was closer to 10, my aunt introduced me to this whole topic of periods, but the only thing that she told me was really that, oh, you're going, you're gonna have, you know, some red spots, and just be aware of that. And I didn't know what she meant. And when I first experienced my, my first period, it was a disaster. And now that I'm much older, when I think, when I think back to those ads, I'm thinking this is not reflecting the reality and the ads are still doing this job, like even even now. When you watch TV, they're always showing that women are happy during their periods.
Mia Voss:It's not true, I love that Like this, this whole happy riding a bike, the whole, the whole thing. We're done such a disservice. I think it's interesting too, when you see these commercials that it's like a blue liquid or it's nothing. That's even accurate to what periods are. But then again that stems to this absolute shame, disdain.
Mia Voss:If you hear men talk about it, which I think they're at least better about it now, I gosh, it depends on where you're looking, of course, but where they're just completely grossed out by it because they're not educated. And if we're not educated about it, they certainly are not. But we're not here to talk about them, although they're a part of what our problem is too. But you're so right about being ill-prepared and not even aware of what that is, and that is a cultural thing as well too. I grew up in the Midwest and I got my period at 14, which was a lot older, I think, now than a lot of young girls or young people are experiencing their period and even then I was ill-prepared for it and ill-prepared for the symptoms, because everybody is so different and our medical system I'm sure yours was the same as well too is not prepared to have that conversation. It's just more. Hey, this is. It is what it is right.
Urmi Hossain:Yeah, and that's the thing I think we're not, we're not prepared for. And I feel like it's even worse when it happens when you're so young, like like for you was, was when you were 14, for me it was when I was 11. And I feel like it's even worse when it happens when you are so young, like for you was when you were 14. For me it was when I was 11. And I feel like this is a really young age to go through that and you can't talk about it with anyone, especially because you know maybe your friends are going through the same thing and they have no clue either. You can't speak about it openly, even with your parents, because it's such a taboo topic and the worst is period cramps.
Mia Voss:Yeah, they are something else and everybody has a different experience from it, and I'll talk a little bit about my experience here in a second. But it's so true that we are not prepared for what comes with that, so the suffering in silence is really tough.
Urmi Hossain:I was going to say, yes, we suffer in silence, even though we're not really in silence when we're suffering, because I remember my experience was terrible. I used to really suffer for a couple of days, and it's not just period cramps, it's everything that comes along with it. You know you have like a headache, you have a back pain. You know there's a lot of things and no one ever talks about, like what are some of the things that you can do to alleviate the pain and what are some of the things that you can eat to feel. You know those kinds of pain and it's it's a shame, because this is part of us and we need, you know, we all need to have, like, our periods, but no one ever talks about it, and even now it's such a big, big taboo, even though we're in 2025.
Urmi Hossain:And, of course, in many culture, like having your periods is considered, I would say, you know it's a shame, but and you're considered impure, so you're forbidden by like you're forbidden from attending religious places, you know, the mosque, the temples and things like that, and it's just like, but why, why, why are we being discriminatory against women who have their periods? You know is, and it just um, it just sucks, and I also watched a lot of movies about periods in um. Basically, these movies were based in in india where they talk about how a lot of the times in, especially in the past um parts of India, they did not have access to pads and they would use like a piece of clothes every time they had their period and they would wash that off and then reuse it.
Mia Voss:Sorry I had myself muted. Yes, it's so interesting to see how. I mean. Here's what we talked about when we were prepping for this. Half the population has a period. I mean, that's it. You know what I mean. Give or take a few percentages there.
Mia Voss:It's so interesting that, unless it's something that affects you lawmakers, lawmakers or anybody that carries the purse strings, it's not really paid attention to. And even with women that are in the medical industry or women in general, we're not taught to speak out and advocate for ourselves, and that's why we're so angry today, again, with the age difference of us being half my age, and we're talking about the same thing and the same experiences, and that's why we wanted to speak about this today. I will be putting some statistics and a lot of resources for you to dive into this, and I want to go back to what you just were saying about how women. There's a book that really affected me when I was younger called the Red Tent, and it's really empowering and I think I need to go back and read it again, because that's that sort of the thing of women are either they have to go out into the desert or go out to something and be put off Again this unclean, unpure.
Mia Voss:If men had periods, there would be baskets of tampons and Advil and all this stuff. I know I'm not saying I've got a solution right now, but I'm just pissed about it because it's literally. If you had that experience and I know that they do have these devices that they can put on men to simulate period cramps and also to simulate giving birth that needs to be out there all the time and before you make any kind of ruling or decision about women and periods, put this thing on and tell me how you feel and tell me how you're going to get through the day with somebody telling you it's just normal, just deal with it.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, yes, that's it. And I feel like, like you said, I think men should try that out, just to understand a little bit what we're going through, because, as you mentioned at the beginning, like part of the problem is also because of them and I also think that part of the solution will be because of them. Like I think we can be, we'll be able to solve a lot of the issues if men really understand how what we're going through and address those needs. Because one of the things that we spoke about a couple of days ago, me and you, was that, like, what took so long to have free pads in public washrooms? You know and I, and still, this is not everywhere. This is happening in some companies where, you know, finally, instead of paying 25 cents to buy a pad or something, you can have it for free. But I'm thinking, why did it take so long? And also, before that, like, why, like, who carries coins nowadays? You know it's very hard that we're carrying coins, you know, so at least make it like you can tap it with your credit card or so forth. You know, so, at least make it like you can tap it with your credit card or so forth. But even then you know like if suddenly you you have your period, you're not gonna go out of the toilet and grab that like it's gonna be so much harder. So I see some places they have fixed this issue, but it's not everywhere, you know, and so it's just it's. I feel like it's such a long journey to make things happen.
Urmi Hossain:And the other issue that I still feel like it's an issue also with the corporate world is that we have like what we call sick days.
Urmi Hossain:Right, we have like a certain number of sickness that we can take, but I also think we should have what we call period days where, at least once a month, women should be allowed to stay home when they're not feeling well, because it did happen to me that I was feeling really sick, but I still made it through the day, I still went to work and I had to suffer in silence. But and the problem was also that I don't have a female boss, so I always felt uncomfortable having this kind of conversation. You know I did give, I did give some hints, but still you feel, you know you still feel not comfortable sharing some things with some people because you don't want to be looked differently. But that's also a struggle too, and you wish you had. You know what we call periods days where you stay home if you need to and you work from home instead of, like you know, carrying yourself to work and while you're dying from period cramps.
Mia Voss:You know, like you know carrying yourself to work and while you're dying from period cramps, you know, oh my gosh. And that that's so important to discuss as well too, of the work piece of it I think I I would love that. I'm going to go back, because you just talked about so many great things. Yes, with the coins, and it again. It's so interesting. I haven't had a period, I think now in about five years. So I am like post-menopausal, in a very low maintenance period of my life. Hormone therapy is working great, so, but I still it's so visceral for me for you to even say that of that, that sort of uncomfortable like shoving toilet paper in your pants to, you know, get out and then find a coin. Anybody got a tampon. That, that furtive conversation that women have of you know. You see a woman sort of like doing the, the drug sneak of a tampon that furtive conversation that women have of you know. You see a woman sort of like doing the drug sneak of the tampon in their hand because they're embarrassed, they don't want somebody to see they're walking to the bathroom with the tampon in their hand. What is up with that? We were so conditioned for that to be this normal shame in that. So, yes, about the coins, yes about even having it be a tap type of thing. The fact that this has become such a market. It is late stage capitalism that has made this to be so unavailable, and so it's still. I was just telling my fiance I was ranting about it this morning about even when I see free products in a bathroom or somewhere, there's a part of me that's like wants to grab a bunch, because it's like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm going to get. It's so interesting to see them free because, again, it's been such a price tag put to these. And I want to bring up some facts real quick, and then we'll talk about the corporate piece too.
Mia Voss:The period poverty statistics are stunning. This is as of. I just did a little period poverty statistics 2025,. Approximately 30% of adolescents lack access to needed menstrual products. And that's the US. 64% of adults were unable to afford period products at least once in the previous 12 months. That is stunning and disgusting. The global impact World Bank estimates that 500 million people globally lack access to basic menstrual products. And then this is what I find interesting. I know you're in Canada, but when we were going through the election last year, one of the things that just became this hot button was when our vice presidential candidate, tim Walz, mentioned that he had been able to get free products in schools in his state of Minnesota and the people that lost their shit about free period products and then they got so mad because they put it in both bathrooms. I could not believe the anger and the vehemence that was put towards that and how offended people were as opposed to how important it was to have these products available. Jump in, I can tell it's crazy. I'm sure you're into this.
Urmi Hossain:I had the same kind of comments, actually, when I men saw period products in their bathrooms, but I was thinking that's not the point.
Urmi Hossain:The point is that we finally have some free products, you know, and also having free, you know period products in men's bathroom is not a bad thing, I think, especially because you do not know, you know, you do not know how someone identifies him or herself, and so I think that's also important to be open-minded about that, especially because this is a very big topic and talking about period products like like a tampons.
Urmi Hossain:So they used to have tampons, um, basically all this time that you would buy for 25 cents. However, the issue was that the issue is that not everyone knows how to use a tampon. Not everyone is comfortable using a tampon. So even then, I'm thinking OK, why not also give us other options? You know why not? Why not give us the easiest option instead of giving us tampons, especially if, let's say, you're like 11 years old who needs to have a you know a period pad, but then you are having this freaking tampon and you're like I don't know how to use it Because no one teaches you how to use it. You have to like Google it or something you know.
Mia Voss:You really do, and there's something to that too. Boy, we're really going to dig in out there folks. So if you're feeling uncomfortable, keep listening. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable about this conversation. It's insertion. I mean, there's a lot to using tampons as a young woman if you're not familiar with that. So I agree there needs to be a lot more options to that as well too.
Mia Voss:And then again, such an important fact of like if you're seeing, if you're a man and seeing tampons or pads in the bathroom, mind your business. It's none of your business. I'm not going to come in and see how you wipe your ass. Okay, I'm not going to see how you, if you're washing your hand. You know what I mean. Like, mind your business is the best piece of information too. And if you are irritated about this, do some inner work. See what it's triggering in you.
Mia Voss:And then another action item is what are you doing in your community to make sure this isn't a problem for people? Are you donating? Can you go to Costco and buy a big old pack of tampons or pads and then make sure as you're driving around? This is me with my exhortation for the day, as you're driving around. This is me with my exhortation for the day as you're driving around, have them in your car, have them. You may see some homeless folks or unhoused folks that are at the intersection and you see, it's a woman. Hand them a few of them. I think we need to normalize this so much. And then to your point about the corporate piece as well, that is so important period days.
Mia Voss:Oh my gosh, how amazing would that be. One, to normalize it. Two, not to shame women of like, oh my God, she's on her period and she's not here. If they knew for one day, like we talked about, with this device that could simulate what that is. And I have a quick story of what had happened to me.
Mia Voss:As I was nearing the end of being on, I was in perimenopause, which is a whole other thing Like. Please, folks be aware. This is why I started this podcast, ermi, I think I mentioned it to you. It's because I couldn't believe how my brain wasn't working. I was about 47 or 48 and went to my doctor. She's like oh, you're in paramenopause, that's brain fog. I'm like what? Because I wasn't prepared for it. And so these sporadic periods were another thing, and I had one portion of time when I could not leave the house for about two days because I was bleeding so heavily that there was no way for me to even leave comfortably without it being an absolute crime scene of that. I mean, it was, and I really had never had periods like that. So, again, that wasn't my experience. I wasn't aware of it and I am a building inspector.
Mia Voss:So here I am on a job site and I'm in this hotel room with about four men trying to give them information on how to put the tile up and the shower towel. So there's me and four guys in a bathroom and I'm pointing that out and luckily I had black pants on that day and I had just like this moment and I was able to like end the meeting and get them out of there. And I was with my business partner and I was like lock the door because I wanted to put yellow tape around myself. I couldn't believe how badly and I thought, oh my God, if men had to experience this one time, one time, the amount of change there would be in our systems in order to accommodate this would be stunning.
Urmi Hossain:In our systems in order to accommodate. This would be stunning. Yes, I feel like men would be a bit more empathetic towards us and more compassionate, because, like what you have just described, I had a similar situation that happened at work and I was so embarrassed, but nothing happened, luckily. Work and I was so embarrassed, but nothing happened, luckily. But I was really embarrassed and you know, I'm a woman in my 30s and you think, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, you have enough experience with it, but you don't.
Urmi Hossain:It always feels like the first time and I was also wearing black pants and I just got my period and me too, I have like heavy flow the first few days and suddenly I was, I was in a meeting and I suddenly stand up and I'm like, oh crap, I feel like I leaked everywhere and I was so embarrassed because I was like I'm pretty sure like something fell on the floor, but luckily it did not. But when I went to the washroom, everything was like dirty, dirty and I had to run home and even then I felt really guilty and I was trying to explain the situation but I couldn't explain it properly and I just said, yeah, I'm not, I'm not feeling well, and I was I, and I did not add anything else, I just said I'm not feeling well, I just have to go. But even then it was like not easy.
Mia Voss:So you're dealing with one, the experience itself, the discomfort, the uh, the mess, right, and then also then having to hide that from, uh, from people, and hide that we used to talk about, um, that the, the way you would know is like maybe had somebody had an accident, was somebody would give you their sweater or their sweatshirt to wrap around your waist because you had had a leak and you were and I don't even remember even feeling like I could even go home.
Mia Voss:I mean, talk about that. I mean you really have to talk to people to get out and go do that. So you know, I think this conversation really should be heard by men more than women, necessarily, because we already know about it. Everybody lives listening to it, as doing what you and I are doing right now. When I put this out, if I put this out on video, you'll see us both vehemently shaking our heads at this experience. But I think what's more important is for men to actually hear that and say how are you going to add to this conversation, If anything? Just empathy and understanding and listening.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, but even then I think I still think it's a problem because there is a lack of training given, like even at the corporate level. I feel like there should be training where everyone is obliged to attend and learn about this Because, yes, you're putting it out there, which is great, but I feel like, because men will not resonate with the topic, they will most likely not listen to it or watch it. You know what I mean? Because me and you can relate to it. It's easier, so we're most likely going to hit on the link, can relate to it, it's easier, so we're most likely going to hit on the link and listen to it. I feel like men is always much harder to get them to. You know, click on the link, basically.
Mia Voss:I'm writing down what I think I'm going to call this period talk for men.
Urmi Hossain:There we go.
Mia Voss:But I think in that training and this is what's interesting that even when we don't even realize but certainly men don't they have nothing unless they have a chronic illness, right, they have nothing for most of their lives. Now there is andropause, which is the male version of menopause, but they really don't have these varying factors in their life. I mean, they're pretty much static from like I mean, yeah, they go through what do you call it, you know, puberty and their voice changed and they've got a hard on all the time, whatever it is that happens with them, right? But from like pretty much 18 until gosh, most of their life, there's no variables to their performance and how they fucking feel throughout the day.
Mia Voss:I had to F on that one Right Like, think about that for us, like we've got this secular thing of like, when our testosterone is higher, we're feeling more confident, or we're more sexy, or our brain works better. And then like, if you even look at our cycles, there's this very, there's a variable all the time, and that's just talking about periods, let alone pregnancy or childbirth, which I did not experience. But then there's a complications of that. So that's where we really need to pay attention to the difference. They're like oh, you've got equity being equity. There's. No, it's not equitable, because you're not even paying attention to the fundamental differences between men and women.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, I agree with you on that. And just to go back to some of the things that you mentioned before, there is a girl that I follow on Instagram. She's an influencer and she is basically without a mother. Her mother passed away from cancer, so her dad raised her and so she often shows, you know, stories of her dad purchasing periods, pads for her, and I feel like it's only in those cases where men feel more involved and understand better the situation because it's directly impacting them. Otherwise they wouldn't care. I feel like, if you have like sons, I don't think it's. I don't think it's something that you care too much about.
Mia Voss:And we're not mad at you guys, we're. We're just as okay. I'm mad a little bit, but I'm mad when you're being intentionally obtuse and not wanting to understand the experience and have derision or resentment towards women, because, oh my God, are you talking about this again? Yes, and I'm going to keep talking about it until it's normalized. Yes, right, but I think that's the piece where everyone needs to really start paying attention. But you're right, unless you have that direct experience.
Mia Voss:There's another person that I really like and I'm going to mention her now, but put the links in there. It's a group called August and the founder is Nadia Okamoto, and she's the author of a book called Period Power, a manifesto for the menstrual movement. You will love her. She does really great things. In fact, she she does a lot, too of getting out in the public to the discomfort have the head of our country, who has been on record making terrible comments about women on their period. That's where we're at and that's why this conversation is happening right now, not just because it's so historical, but because we're sitting on the precipice or we are sitting in soaking in a current administration that has very, very little regard for women in general.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, yes, that says it all.
Mia Voss:I liked it. Sorry to end on what is, unfortunately, a little bit of a grim no, but we also have to be realistic about this too, and that's why we're having this conversation as well, too. I'm going to wrap this up, but I really want to talk about what you're doing as much as you feel comfortable about what you're doing in business, and I'm so excited about the work that you're doing, so tell us about that.
Urmi Hossain:Yes, so I am part of two different organizations. The first one is called Women in Leadership. It's based in Canada and we have several chapters. I volunteer for the chapter in Victoria and I'm the social media lead.
Urmi Hossain:So Women in Leadership, it's an organization that basically what it does, it tries to empower and build confidence in the women that we're serving. That we're serving more from a corporate point of view, but we also have a lot of entrepreneur entrepreneurs and we provide a lot of support when it comes to, you know, mentorship, leadership development program, and we also have events, in-person events and support webinars, so anything they basically will help the women in the community to feel empowered. And the second organization is called um family influencers. So it's based in South Africa. The person that I work with, she is the founder of the organization and, again, we're serving the women in our communities and basically these are, I would say, less privileged women and we touch upon other topics than you know confident. It's more about clean hygiene, mental health, domestic violence and things like that. So we even there, we try to provide the support and education that the women in the communities need.
Mia Voss:Yeah, I'll see why I was excited for her to tell you what she does and where can we find information on that.
Urmi Hossain:So for women in leadership, basically that. So for Women in Leadership basically people can just Google Women in Leadership, canada and they will basically find out about the organization, and once they click on the website, they will find out about the different chapters and what each chapter does. For Femme Influence, we have basically an Instagram account it's basically Femme Point Influence and even there they will find all the work that we do and they can use the direct message to basically contact us, and so we are available on Instagram.
Mia Voss:And I'll have all the links in the show notes as well too. This was a good conversation. I so appreciate you.
Urmi Hossain:Thank you.
Mia Voss:Hey, thanks for tuning in. You can check out the show notes and guest links at shit. We don't talk about podcastcom. If you like this episode, please subscribe and give it a like or leave a review, especially if it's a good one. See you next time, bye, bye.