Shit We Don't Talk About
Shit We Don’t Talk About is the podcast that takes on topics we should be talking about more often and openly. Guests and topics will be incredibly diverse, sometimes painful, sometimes joyful but all things we need to talk about candidly to keep us all informed and connected. Some topics may be triggering so please listen with care.
Shit We Don't Talk About
Ep. 87 - Sherry Lynne Williams - Turning Shame into Sovereignty
What if the parts of your life you're most ashamed of are actually the foundation of your greatest strengths?
Meet Sherry Lynne Williams, a woman who has walked an extraordinary path from drug addiction and prostitution to becoming a respected environmental scientist with government clearances. In this profound conversation, Sherry shares how she transformed societal shame into personal sovereignty by fully owning every chapter of her remarkable journey.
"My passion today is for everyone to realize that this journey we're on is amazing, beautiful, and very personal, and there's not one damn moment of it that we need to be ashamed of," Sherry explains. Rather than hiding or erasing her past, she embraced it as the foundation that made her who she is today—compassionate, strong, and uniquely qualified to understand the human condition.
We explore how shame functions as a weapon of isolation, particularly for women, and how perfectionism serves patriarchal structures by keeping us disconnected from our authentic selves and each other. Sherry introduces the concept of the "shame salve"—how we sometimes tell our stories seeking sympathy rather than sharing wisdom—and offers a more empowering alternative.
The conversation delves into how viewing our life experiences as valuable "data points" allows us to integrate our shadows into our strength. When we stand in our sovereignty, owning all aspects of our journey, we become impervious to judgment and name-calling while creating space for others to embrace their own stories.
Ready to alchemize your shame into personal power? Listen to this episode, check out Sherry's book "Not Your Average Drug Addict Whore: A Life So Wrong It Went Right," and begin the transformative process of owning your whole, magnificent self.
About Sherry:
Sherry’s heroine’s journey is moving and inspiring. One cannot help but consider their own bravery as a possibility after hearing her story. Sherry looks to expand a sense of hope and direction in communities across the world. Her career has been varied, successful and fulfilling. As a scientist, teacher, storyteller, and coach she is an enigma of expectation. Sherry is a captivating storyteller. It has become her passion to create a spoken journey that others might relate to. Through sharing her pivotal, moving, and sometimes dark journey, Sherry opens herself to allow her audience to feel their own potential open
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Hey, welcome to the latest episode of Shit. We Don't Talk About the podcast that takes on topics that need more open and honest discussion, which means some of these topics are triggering. So please take care when listening and I'll always give you a trigger warning. For instance, here's one Every episode contains swear words.
Mia Voss:You've been warned Make sure to check out the show notes, which include an accessibility transcript of the podcast and all of the links for our guests at shitwedonttalkaboutpodcastcom of ours. My guest in this episode is Sherri Lynn Williams. She's a scientist, speaker, storyteller and an author. I can't wait for you to hear the title of her book, and today we're going to be talking about alchemizing shame into sovereignty. Tune in it gets good. It gets good. Hi, sherry, hi.
Sherry Lynne Williams:How are you? It is a beautiful day and I'm so, so happy to be hanging out with you today and we're going to talk some shit, talk some shame.
Mia Voss:Talk some shit, shit. We don't talk about Shame, so welcome everyone. I'm Mia Voss. I am a blonde woman, 60 60 years old, super menopausal. That's not necessarily identifier, that's visual, but that's me. I'm wearing a pink top, no glasses today and some pink lip gloss sherry, tell us what you look like all right.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Well, I dressed up for this audio occasion just to lift my spirits. I am a blondish, brown, blue-eyed woman and I'm wearing a baby blue satin shirt sassy, sassy, with a gorgeous Larimar rock hanging around my neck to keep the energy flowing.
Mia Voss:It is like my eyes are drawn to it, so you're like eyes up here. It is like my eyes are drawn to it, so you're like eyes up here. It's right here at your neckline.
Sherry Lynne Williams:There's power in what we wear there really is.
Mia Voss:We're both here in Colorado and today we're going to talk about shame. So I was introduced to Sherry through my friend Eunice, who said oh my gosh, we need to get you two together. So tell us a little bit about you and then we're going to dive into. I love the title. Also, we're playing around with titles as we talk. Alchemizing Shame is another one too, and turning it into a new alchemy of superpower. So tell us a little bit about you superpower.
Sherry Lynne Williams:So tell us a little bit about you, okay, so back in my early years, it was a really tough and challenging form of life that I traveled through a lot of what society would call pretty shameful pieces and parts, things you don't talk about publicly, and the journey was an amazing and magical one because I never said no to trying things to get myself up to a different level and that allowed me to play with being a landscaper, a roofer, I was a yoga teacher for a while and grew up most of my midlife as a drug addict and a prostitute.
Sherry Lynne Williams:So on the opposite end of that, as I played with life, I realized that that's what we all do in life as we play and some of the things society would call the things we don't talk about. So I'm on the opposite end, where I am now. I became a well-respected environmental scientist and I worked for government services and I had wonderful clearances. So it was a journey to end all journeys and I'm still doing it, and my passion today, in this moment, is for everyone to realize that this journey we're on is amazing, beautiful and very personal one, and there's not one damn moment of it that we need to be ashamed of.
Mia Voss:How am I going to follow that up? It's incredible. You really encapsulated it so well and I appreciate how easily you flowed from the shame piece, which I love saying it sounds. You had curiosity unbridled. Which shame can kill curiosity? So so, so quickly, especially with women our age, we are shamed into all these different things we're supposed to be doing. So I really want to point out how joyfully you announced your journey just in that short little time just now of hey, I went from here to here and didn't feel like, oh my gosh, I had to stop here because society's going to say you did what it sounds like and I'm sure it took some work. I know it takes a while to get to that, but I mean that's why I wanted to bring you on today also to talk about shame, because of how sneaky it is and we're not going to necessarily focus on that as the most powerful thing, but how we can alchemize it.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yes, let's do that. That is my passion to allow every single person to understand that the journey they are on and have been on is necessary to be owned so you can stand in your sovereign self and be strong. And in that sovereign self, you are capable. You are more than capable to take on the next step in the next year, in the next five years, and the thing that I've learned is pulling all of those moments in so that I can stand forward and I'm not going to be taken down by someone calling me a whore or a slut. Those days are gone.
Mia Voss:Unfortunately, with the way that the world seems to be moving into more, it feels like it's slingshotted so much back into the colonial patriarchy. I mean a world without pockets for women is what I've been saying to myself. I feel like one of the most powerful things we can have are these wonderful, roomy pockets where we can carry our shit and not just things like flying all over the place. That's always my thing.
Sherry Lynne Williams:I love that.
Mia Voss:I need to start a new podcast called and it has Pockets. You have something cute and you go ooh, look at the pockets.
Sherry Lynne Williams:The thing I hadn't thought about.
Mia Voss:It's really good, though, once you think about it, that just came out of nowhere. But I think the sovereignty piece is so, so important and I want to ask you tell us about some of your moments when it was more or how you moved from, like the deep, deep shame. Tell us about, maybe, some of your gotcha moments or your aha moments, when you're like I don't want to sit in this, I want to be okay with this. Not that I'm going to cover up my entire background, because that's a lot of things that people do when they think moving into sovereignty is to completely change who they were, and that's ignoring and you mentioned this before we got started about the accumulated shadows I think that's ignoring a lot of your history and your accumulated shadows. When you just say I want to be a totally, completely different person, I think shame follows you into that.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Right. So it was when I was coming out of the days of prostitution and drug use. I'd be having a conversation with my new coworkers, or even an instance's family. You know, they didn't know the shit that had gone through because I hadn't really had any contact with family. So we're having conversations, but there were all these voids of my life that I couldn't speak out loud because it wasn't socially an acceptable place. And so flash forward, you know, that's when I learned OK, let's just keep that down, let's pretend like those years didn't happen, like those years didn't happen.
Sherry Lynne Williams:And then, as I got older and I was feeling this drive to speak out loud about these things, it was the shame and the responses that I would get from people who were listening to my story. But then, in those same moments was when I said no. It was those moments that made me this super strong, very compassionate woman that I am today. And I will say that my experience said no, they're all different, but my experience in prostitution led me to understand how every human just wants to be loved. Every human is looking for connection. That's what it really came down to. And when that light bulb came on and then I'm out of the business of prostitution. It's how I interacted with every person that I met. It's how I held myself when I was at work, and so these are the foundations of who you are.
Sherry Lynne Williams:And the moments that I had felt vulnerable, the moments that I had felt scared, the moments that I was beating the shit out of my own self for doing drugs again and again and again and finding excuses again, they all gave me the elements of who I am to be, the person I show up at every day, and I have records and records and records of commendations from my jobs about who it is, who I show up, how different I am and how valuable it is when I do show up at work.
Sherry Lynne Williams:So this is what I want everyone to see is these are shadows, but they're the foundation of who you are and they need to be valued and they need to be seen and they hold you up very strongly If you choose to see them as worthy, if you choose to hold them and you don't have to, I told me. I said you don't have to go hang out your dirty laundry. It's not about doing what I'm doing and and going out there. And I said you don't have to go hang out your dirty laundry. It's not about doing what I'm doing and going out there and you know, oh my God, she said the word brothel and prostitute and junkie all in one sentence.
Mia Voss:Watching everybody come unglued.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yeah. So that's the point of releasing the shame and owning all the different pieces of your life into you know you could see your life as a timeline and all of those are data points. You have triumph, you have strength, you have joys, you have parties and celebrations and you gained understanding and freedom through all of those moments. And so let's take a moment to really celebrate. And who wants to continue to be a victim? And who wants to continue to be a victim?
Sherry Lynne Williams:The other word I use is the shame salve that you know you can tell your story in a way that gets a lot of sympathy, and you can. People can say, yeah, you were really hurt and oh, that was really a bad situation and you were damaged. And you, yeah, you went in the hospital and you can tell that story for a while and at some point, the value of shifting the dialogue of that story into man, it was a hell of a hell of a ride. But on the other side, I've learned this I had people show up for me and tell that story from there and then the sympathy salve is no longer needed and you can heal.
Mia Voss:It transmutes into action points that everybody can use, as opposed to just sitting there in that one story. I love that you brought that up. I think that is such an important piece for people going through things Like how do you kind of alchemize that from just your story? And then, because I think if you had stayed in that Sherry, we would just be going like, well, that's her story and mine isn't as extreme as that or mine is a different one than that, and then it keeps us all isolated, right, because we're just going by this specific data points per se and saying, well, mine don't match that exactly and I really do love that when you're telling your story and it is so bold and big, right, but it again is saying this just happens to be my experience, but this is how I've changed it out from that too. Shame Sav is such an important one, and I do love again that you brought up the data points is such an important piece as well too.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yeah, I love that piece that you just mentioned on isolation.
Sherry Lynne Williams:There's an epiphany that hadn't come across, and that's exactly what we need to move away from in this process is get out of our isolation and see how we all are journeying.
Sherry Lynne Williams:That you know to. If you were in an audience and you're watching a play and there's someone doing something that you think is horrible up on stage or something is going to happen and you want, you know you're like, oh no, don't go there. You know you're not going to run up on that stage and stop the play, and I see our lives as so interconnected with the value that we gain from journeying our own life and letting others journey their own life that it comes together truly in a form of community. It appears that maybe you're just like you know, just that person should never have done that and you can do like, oh my God, seinfeld. But in the bigger picture, we're all just cruising our way and we're learning our lessons and we may have, at four, we may have burnt our hand on a stove. The lessons get a little tougher and bigger and the expansion and the experiences that grow us come right along with that.
Mia Voss:One quick point too. When you said that I think that isolation is a weapon, it's weaponized, right. They keep us apart from each other. We see it in business. We see it in the difference between moms and non-moms. We see it in society, social media. Is it really weaponized for that as well, too?
Mia Voss:I think perfectionism I've talked about that in the past too is a weapon of patriarchy. So us talking about this of I can only get out of there's the past, too, is a weapon of patriarchy. So us talking about this of I can only get out of there's, the concept of I can only get out of shame if I have one whitewash my background and two made it look absolutely perfect. And I'm here to tell you I think this is the wonderful thing about being, for me, being a woman that just hit 60 in menopause like fuck that shit and get rid of that as soon as possible. You don't need to wait to get to this age to get into that mindset of I don't need to jump through hoops. I think you can be at a space and I can tell from your demeanor you're at a space where you don't even have to be combative about it. It just is and it, just it's. There's a beautiful piece to what you're saying.
Sherry Lynne Williams:And so everyone who is listening. My greatest desire for me being present in this space and me offering my story is the truth is of how beautiful your journey, is the honesty that you have lived it, and to show up. Please show up, holy. You give us your all, and that truth doesn't need to be spoken. That truth will emanate from you without even having to announce all the pieces and bits and parts that got you to whatever place that you're in, and there's always the next thing to try.
Mia Voss:There's always the next thing to try there is and I'm glad you brought that up because you mentioned it before too. You're telling all these truths and we'll have a link to it and Cher's going to talk about it when we start wrapping up about her book, which, by the way, is entitled Not your Average Drug Addict Tour, which I love. I mean, what's it about? I mean it's just, it's just right there, and I think that's what we need to uh, to to be a lot more bold about it. But you also talked about, um, there's a, a nuance to this as well, of you don't have to put everything out there, because I think when you start doing that, when you're lining it all up, you're making sure that every piece gets approved, Right, and I feel like you've got this nuance where you're super bold about it.
Mia Voss:And again, we're talking about somebody here. Folks, that engineer worked with the feds, right? You know what I mean. Like that's where people, most people, would be like I've got to keep everything close to the vest, and it sounds like you have such an interesting balance of putting out what you need to keeping things for yourself, keeping true to yourself, and that's really helped you with your sovereignty.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yes, and there was the pieces that came in when I worked for the feds. I was up front, the investigators who gave me my clearances. You know this is me, this is who I am, and it was understood through my actions of how I was showing up in the years. So with that I'd like to also offer there's no stopping point that you may imagine in changing and doing things differently or just engaging with life differently. When you come out from the truth and the space of this is who I am and this is how I show up. That is the evidence that carries the change forward and brings the community together and becomes the beacon. To sound a little cliche on that is no, it's good.
Mia Voss:Yeah, it's really good, and I think what's encouraging about this, too, is that we're not offering this recipe for you know how to how to hit that. It's going to have to be your own as well, but I think what's so encouraging about your story is that it's possible, because, literally, we are talking about extremes of situations that you've been in and extremes of businesses and people that you've worked with and you've been able to make that work, and so it just adds a possibility to where we need to be, which is again dropping shame. Being honest, and in this culture and in the atmosphere that we're in politically, it's so age old.
Mia Voss:Whore and slut are just these like that's their favorite fucking go-to, right? And I even remember so. I graduated high school in 83 and I had this interesting time when if you didn't go along to get along, or if you're, you know, one bit of obstinate, that was their go-to. And it was such an irony because I was, I grew up in this born again Christian cult. So now there was abuse happening at home, but as far as like me, going out, kissing boys, making out the whole thing, third base home run, whatever, it was not happening. But I still got, especially my senior year, this reputation of that because I wasn't, because I was like guys are full of shit, I don't want to deal with you. So that was such a go-to and it always has been for women. It's nothing new and it hasn't changed, unfortunately.
Sherry Lynne Williams:That's my rant that's my rant and it's all true. I can't. I'm thinking like there's really nothing I can add to that. Um, any name calling when you stand in your sovereignty, it's the, it's the fear of the other person, it's the lack of understanding in the growth of the other person that you know. Anyone who name calls me now doesn't understand my life, doesn't understand the journey of life, and that's shame comes upon. I didn't feel shame really until I started coming out of being a junkie and a prostitute, because it was society who said oh, you should be ashamed Instead of where I see it now is, I did some freaking amazing things in growing myself out that I had no clue of what I was doing, but I did it. So screw you guys. I'm taking my ball and going home.
Mia Voss:Yeah, what a great point to accentuate, not only it's not just staying in the situation we're in, but what you did. That's right to what you accomplished. To say, hey, here's where I'm going to be, that's where the focus should be as well. And it really is a good reminder on the name calling, because again it is really increasing and it's just like, really, that's all you got. Okay, can you come up with something new where you really can just withstand it, because it's just a reflection of who that person is. I think there's something really powerful in that, especially for women women in business, women in the speaker circuit, writing books, anything out there in the world that we can be empowered to just be like, oh okay, well, that's on you. How embarrassing for you. Yeah, for the name caller.
Sherry Lynne Williams:And the. And the truth is that I have experienced, when I've been on stages and vocalized the journey, are the whispers that come up into my ear afterwards of oh, my son, he's addicted to opioids and I'm just, you know, very embarrassed, very ashamed. The women that came up going. You know, there was a point in my life, you know, I'm really glad you're talking about this and it's the outward society not wanting to value the journey that we've been on. So own your journey, release that shame within you and you'll feel so light and so whole. And I'm going to stress that when you can show up in life as your whole person and you'll feel so light and so whole. And I'm going to stress that when you can show up in life as your whole person, owning every single data point, every single event, whether it was a celebration or suffering it made you into this beautiful individual with frequency that goes out there and does their amazing things all on their own.
Mia Voss:I'm going to quote back to you what you mentioned before we started that you were in a group and they mentioned right before we met up, accumulated shadows create a strength to the very foundation that we are. I think I wrote that down correctly and it's such a great point to what you just said as well. So it can be the shadows, it can be the whole person, it can be that and I will say the most powerful things I've seen on social media or posts are when someone does a beyond the ordinary like got you know story to share and I mean they get your. They really, really get your attention either. I've seen recently someone share about losing their son to addiction and it just really calls it, calls people in. It's so wonderful. It's like the people that come up to you after your talks when they sort of furtively will mention things to you.
Mia Voss:I will say people, everybody, all of us showing up as our whole person is going to encourage more people to do that, because they'll see it and like well, I can do that as well too, and I know that sounds like a really cheesy little rah-rah thing, but I really, really, truly feel that because, again the times I've seen people share these wonderful stories and that had actually happened to me about 10 years ago.
Mia Voss:I shared on Mother's Day because I was not connected with my mom for about 10 years and we are really. She has done so much work for her to, for us to be in a wonderful relationship now. So if you had told me this 10, 15 years ago, I would tell you to go fucking pound sand. But I did share at the time about not being in a relationship with my mother on Mother's Day and that it's okay, and the amount of people that came forward with, oh, my gosh. Thank you for saying that, because a lot of these holidays are incredibly painful and so I want to encourage that. Not again that you have to put that out there, but just know, if you do that there's somebody that's going to cleave onto that and it'll really encourage them.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yes, yes, and I'm just feeling the lightness that all of those people who reach back out to you felt afterwards Relief.
Mia Voss:There was a lot of relief because again there's all these perfectionism things that you have to hit these certain slots right In order to be accepted in society, and I think we're really tearing that down. I think the divine feminine I love saying that I always have to put that into every podcast is starting to tear that down and then create pockets of people or create new societies that are gonna to feel a lot more empowered. Again. I think the title is going to be from you know, shame to sovereignty, because I love that you had brought that up. Well, tell us about before we wrap up. Let's hear more about your book and where you're at on the tour and where we can find out more information about you, because it's just such mean talk about putting it all out there.
Sherry Lynne Williams:it's wonderful well the book, as she said. Um, not your average drug addict whore with a subtitle of a life so wrong. It went right and the rightness is just flowing. As I am reaching out to more people, I'm having the time and the space to stand in front of groups, I'm working in halfway houses, just offering a different mindset, a way to think that's different than society and family even have conditioned us to think, and my purpose is to let every person understand that their life has been perfect, to let every person see that they're not broken, that there's still more. And let's see what else. Oh, my website, I call it. I was pregnant on my birthday website, I call it. I was pregnant on my birthday. I'm 61. So I really wasn't like birthing a child, but I was birthing this next step, and for me, that is getting out there more and doing more things, of which I don't know what they're going to look like, but I tell you, audience, if you have any suggestions or would like to reach out, my website is Sherri Lynn Williams.
Mia Voss:And that's Lynn, with an E at the end too, yeah.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Yeah, so my book is on Audible as well as in print and I feel, if you're feel driven and inspired, I'd love to have you reach out. Thank you.
Mia Voss:We'll put the links in there too. So it's sherrylynnwilliamscom, is that right? Yeah?
Sherry Lynne Williams:And you know what I misspoke, because I just changed it. Oh, that's okay. This is going to be a work in progress, so this is a work in progress and I was looking at my name on the screen, so my author name is Sherry Lynn Williams. My website is Wisdom's Gateway. That's way easier to remember. Wisdomsgatewaycom oh my gosh, I love.
Mia Voss:Ooh. Okay, I like that change. That's wonderful. Yes, You've got your name and that's all good. But I want to also point out I love that in your title you have and I've got it up over here you have the action of a life so wrong. It went right. Now that right there is grabbing the power. You've got the title of a not your average drug whore, but then a life so wrong it went right. It's very, very powerful. So whoever coached you, if that just came out of you with that title, it's winning. I love it. All right, so we'll have links in the show notes as well, but I hope this was really helpful for you. I love it. All right, so we'll have links in the show notes as well, but I hope this was really helpful for you. This was great for. This was good for me. It was a good. A little bong hit off your, your spiritual wonderfulness, so I really appreciate that, Sherry.
Sherry Lynne Williams:Love that analogy.
Mia Voss:Thank you, mia. Yes, thanks for tuning in everyone. Yes, Thanks for tuning in everyone. Hey, thanks for tuning in. You can check out the show notes and guest links at shitwedontalkaboutpodcastcom. If you liked this episode, please subscribe and give it a like or leave a review, especially if it's a good one. See you next time, bye.